Some more study pictures for Misti

[lahistoriadogo]

All of these pictures are for you to evaluate and critique, and then we'll talk about my opinions on their structure. There are things that I like and don't like about all of these dogos, and they're all mine. On top of that they are all from different kennels. No one will be offended by anything negative or positive you say, so say what you feel.

Josh

[mistirose]

Ok WOW ... Thank you Josh. I will go photo by photo and tell you what I notice (and I will try to be brief! lol.. a daunting task for me!)

Photo 1/2: Head/Neck: Difficult for me to tell since he's smiling. He does appear to have a nice width to his jaws and the top of his skull appears to be broad and flat. His neck is well defined and comes out of his shoulders nicely. Personally, I don't think he has a "pretty" neck ... but he's such a heavy boned boy with such a broad head and wide set to his jaw that I'm not sure you can get a swan neck on a dog with that kind of head piece. (Remember, all things being equal I was a head and neck girl. lol)
Body: Nice width to his chest from the front shot. From the side, I think he could be deeper in the heart girth ... or at least I liked the heart girth (and I'm sure this is not the same term in the dog world so if you will correct me I will use the proper term) for example on the female we used in the photo review yesterday ... and the female you have in the last photo listed here. Also, his breast bone does not carry forward in front of his leg. He also, looking at him from the front shot *almost* appears as though he might tend to bow out just the tiniest bit in his front legs, however his feet appear to stand square and neither toe in or out. I know that this could simply be how he is stacked or how he is growing. I do like his topline much better than that of the photo we reviewed yesterday. Is he a little long in the back? I haven't learned about this in Dogos yet ... I see them all over the spectrum.
Angulation: His rear angulation looks good to me... I'm not positive - would you like to see just a little more or is this more than adequate? Finally, he appears to have excellent bone mass ... a very sturdy, solid dog. Plus... he looks happy! lol Overall, I like him very much ... from an uneducated eye I would say the thing that *I* would change, if I could change one thing would be his depth and deepness of chest.

Photo 4: Head/Neck: Compared to dog 1, I think this dog has a very pretty neck; having said that there is something about his head, Josh, that bothers me. He certainly appears deep enough from the top of his skull to the bottom of his jawline, and he has a nice stop. The end of his muzzle just looks a bit snippy muzzled or feminine to me for lack of better words. It just may be this picture... or it just may be me! Will you let me know on this one please? Also, is he borderline having too much lip?

Body: This dog has a lot of heart girth but he has no breast bone/chest carrying forward in front of his legs. He definitely does NOT have the bone mass that the dog in Photo 1 has.

Feet/Angulation: It appears, in this photo, as though he might toe out. So hard to really tell that with photos though! Where I seriously fault this dog is his rear angulation. To me, he is what we would call "posty hocked." He seems to have almost no angulation in the rear. If he had a little more, this would drop his hips down another inch or two and his topline would be nearly perfect wouldn't it?

Female in Photo 5/6:
My first impression of her is that I really like her ... she's a very elegant, feminine girl. Then I ask myself why I'm immediately drawn to her and I know... it's that darn swan neck!!! Go ahead... smack me on the back of the head I deserve it! lol Her front shot is beautiful at first glance... graceful girl elegance... Snow Queen Dogo determination. But ok... the love fest is over.

Head/Neck: I love this dogs neck. We'll get that out of the way. From the font I wonder if her lips are a bit too pendulous - I believe one of the "new" standards says that anything that drops below the bottom jaw is a penalty. You do not see this from her profile shot - only her front shot, so if you will clarify that for me Josh I would greatly appreciate it. I realize that there is a difference between a female and a dog. We want our girls to look like girls; having said that, I wonder if she doesn't perhaps lack a bit of jaw. I'm picking on her though ... trying to make her a perfect dog.

Body: I think she has a nice depth to her hearth girth and her breast bone carries forward nicely. She is one of the best dogs in that regard featured today, in my opinion. To me, of the 3 dogs, she has the nicest topline. For her height, she has a nice body length. I think where her greatest fault lies is that she lacks bone mass. If I could wave a magic wand and fix her that is what I would fix.

Angulation/Feet: I think her angulation is moderate. She could probably use a bit more but not a lot. Not as nicely angulated as Dog 1 but definitely better than Dog 2. Her feet are straight and they are nice and tight. I appreciate that in a dog because I can't tolerate a splay footed dog! I know her back right foot is splayed but I think that's just a grip issue on the snow - the rest of those feet are tight as a drum and look fantastic.

Overall, I would say this is probably a very nice foundation female to have because she has so many nice things about her that are very hard to breed on to an animal ... a little more angulation and some bone mass are easy enough to fix. Proper structure, hearth girth, a nice topline, and a neck like that can't be easy to come by in one package.

Ok so that's my input for today... please straighten me out! lol

And... thanks so much Josh. You rock.

[lahistoriadogo]

I am going to have to do each dog separately. First one, his name is Berrinche. His angulation is my biggest complaint. The pictures do him a lot of justice. He is straight both front and rear, and I think you were very accurate on your assessment of him given the pictures. His best asset, and the sole reason for him being with me is his head piece. I didn't look for a good picture of his head because we were going more for body. But he has a real nice convex-concave(that is the "ideal" for the breed.) I feel as if his angulation would solve the problems he has in his body. He has my favorite top line out of the three. His legnth is also the best. The dogo should be 10% longer than tall.

[lahistoriadogo]

Photo 4: Iceman. in that photo I agree with you about his muzzle. I like for it to look much more squared off. It doesn't look square at all. (side bar, it was a bad time to take a headshot. he was healing up to a bite on his nose and face) But looking at him without that knowledge, which is why I posted it, it is a good eye to see that. As for lippy, I don't agree with that for this photo. It is hard to see but his chin is shadowed and it is far from his lip. It is a serious fault for pendulous lips. I like his top line too, but second to Berrinche. He is moderately angulated, but in this picture I would describe him as straight in the rear. I love his neck insertion. I do not like that he is sort of square. Meaning same height as length. He is just a tad bit longer than tall, but not the full 10%. His muzzle legnth to skull legnth is correct, I like a little more definition to the stop, but it is certainly sufficient.

[lahistoriadogo]

Paloma is the mother of the female in the other thread. She imprinted her breastbone,( I too don't know the technical term in dogs for). She looks pendulous in the frontal shot of her. She isn't long either. I will tell you a part of her I HATE...Her tail curls WAY too much for me. In the pictures she is mild to moderately angulated. She is the most angulated out of the three in this post, Abuelita, the female from the other post is the most angulated of them all. Her top line looks good, but I prefer the boys' toplines to Palomas. Her biggest fault is her height, she is about 3"s taller than your girl. For me she is weak in the muzzle. Love love her paws. She is the tallest of all three. I hope this is helping some. I am by no means an expert, but whatever I can offer, is available.

Josh

[mistirose]

Ok - so this is a great teaching tool for me. Where we prefer the horses to be almost square you prefer the dogos to actually be a bit longer. That is great to know! I was actually looking for the opposite. Thinking about what the breed is bred for I can absolutely understand this - wanting a dog that can lope along after prey for a distance with bursts of speed you need some length to the body with depth to the rib cage for large lungs. Without that spinal length you don't have a dog that can travel, reach up underneath himself and propel himself forward. I completely understand this once I put some thought into it and my way of thinking is changed. Thank you Josh!

I had never actually considered the "curve" in the tail - I was always looking at how it tied in to the dogs topline - so I will look for that more in the future. As for Paloma being a bit tall and her *dreaded* tail , she has so many other nice qualities, with her well developed heart girth and breast bone and elegance - that you state she passes on - I still maintain she is an asset as a foundation female. If I was a beginning breeder you would you advise me against purchasing this kind of girl?

[lahistoriadogo]

In a way I would discourage pruchasing a dogo identical to her. But having seen what she throws I would not. If I were to buy another bitch, she would be a little bit shorter in the legs and thicker. I would also suggest for you to see the dogs behind the bitch you purchase. I LOVE Palomas father Fairtex Pisco. My favorite attribute of him is his eye set. He has very small eyes set wide on his skull. Beautiful in my opinion. Her grandpa is the great Quebracho de los Medanos.

If you are serious about becoming a breeder of dogos, learn how to safely break up a dog fight. Before you start adding to your pack. It is an inevitable event, especially if you have intact dogos. They are HARD dogs. But there are people that breed them to be extra soft. Just my two cents.